Author Topic: Motion judder video settings  (Read 12131 times)

Offline Rene

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Motion judder video settings
« on: January 11, 2011, 04:23:02 PM »
Hello,

I have some problems with moition judder when playing video's with scala.
I let them play fullscreen.

The video are made for me, now i got the question what video settings should i use?
Now I use MP4 video's with the H264 codec. Frame rate 25fps
Data rate limit 6,8Mbps to 8Mbps max.
16:9 Pal video progressive.

What do you use for your video's ?

Thank in advance.
Regards,
Rene

Offline bunny

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Re: Motion judder video settings
« Reply #1 on: January 13, 2011, 10:28:30 PM »
I have some problems with moition judder when playing video's with scala.

Now I use MP4 video's with the H264 codec. Frame rate 25fps

What is your screen refresh rate? If it is 60Hz, as is quite common, then you have   60 / 25

Try setting your screen to 50fps and see if that helps?

Offline cendrick

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Re: Motion judder video settings
« Reply #2 on: February 03, 2011, 12:18:16 PM »
I've not had any success playing any video without Judder unless its an mpeg-2 stream.
If anyone has had success with any other format I would love to hear the settings.

regards,
Rick

Offline JohnS

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Re: Motion judder video settings
« Reply #3 on: February 04, 2011, 04:57:46 PM »
As has been mentioned--the most common reason for Judder is the the Playback Display is not configured at an integer multiple of the video FPS.

NOTE:  Many LCD's/PDP's have an internal "fixed" digitizer sampling rate.  They may _accept_ 24/25/30/50/60/75/85/100/120 Hz video signals--but they may only internally _SAMPLE_ this video stream at some fixed rate:  (i.e. 59.94 HZ is common in the U.S., 50/75/100 is common in Europe) 

Sometimes one gets "Grey Market" products--about 8 weeks after the German World Cup the U.S. was flooded with "cheap" LCD TV's/Computer Monitors--all of which had resolutions of 1440x900 and internal digitizer rates of 75 Hz.  [...the DDC2b/EDID on these screens reported the "best" refresh rate was 60Hz--so the importers had flashed the ROM's, but obviously not changed the sampling HW--so they always displayed "Motion Judder" by default!]

For the best possible video--you need to start  with the Display device and work backward.  Its *actual* screen refresh rate is the governing factor!  If its a 75 or 100 Hz device--then keep all Player refresh rates and video content to multiples of 25.  If a 60 Hz device, then multiples of 30.  If 59.94--then 29.97.


--JSS

Offline Rene

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Re: Motion judder video settings
« Reply #4 on: February 07, 2011, 07:01:56 AM »
I have the player on 50Hz as is needed and use an fps of 25 for the video's.
If the motion in the video stays the same it looks good but if the motion in the video speeds up the picture hiks.
Can't seem to get it right.
Tested MPEG2 and MP4 (H264).

My player is an quad core intel processor should be able to run video smoothless.

René

Offline JohnS

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Re: Motion judder video settings
« Reply #5 on: February 28, 2011, 03:00:17 PM »
I would suspect that your video is being encoded as VBR--and that the "swing" of the data rate is excessive.  There is no point in attempting to maintain an excessive level of video quality when the motion is fast.

If you must must encode VBR--and I generally advise against it--cap the "preak data rate" to no more than 400% of the target "Average Data Rate".  [I've seen people encode VBR with a 1000% swing--and when the data rate goes from 10Mbps to 100Mbps they wonder why there is a glitch in the video playback....]

--J

Offline Rene

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Re: Motion judder video settings
« Reply #6 on: March 02, 2011, 03:50:19 AM »
Hello,

I'm using VBR, with limitation's on: general 3Mbps en max on 8Mbps.
So it should be normal playable for scala?

Best,
Rene

Offline JohnS

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Re: Motion judder video settings
« Reply #7 on: March 02, 2011, 11:44:49 AM »
On a "properly configured machine" a VBR video stream with an ABR of 3Mbps with a peak at 8Mbps for MPEG-2, H.264, or VC-1 should not pose any special problem.

At this point I would suggest that you have a "machine configuration issue".  [old/bad devices drivers, IRQ-sharing(BIOS issues), missing appropriate patches, other software installed on the machine that is causing conflicts, usw.]


--J

Offline Rene

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Re: Motion judder video settings
« Reply #8 on: March 03, 2011, 03:33:56 AM »
Hello,

What I'm thinking off is:
I have the pc outputting to two monitors (DVI) {in clone mode}. Probatly this is take to much processing.

Only problem is that I can't change it for my setup.
Could this cause the problem?

René

Offline JohnS

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Re: Motion judder video settings
« Reply #9 on: March 03, 2011, 01:21:53 PM »
I doubt it.  If you review the User Manual:

a Dual-Core 2.0 GHz CPU with 2MB of L2-cache;

2GB of DDR2-667 SDRAM implemented at 2x1GB;

and a 128-bit NVIDIA or ATi graphics card with at least 512MB of GDDR3 memory--can do:

2x1920x1080 of independent content channels -- with each display having either full screen MPEG-2/H.264/VC-1 of up to 16Mbps CBR video-- or up to three screen "zones" with up three text crawls overlayed/alpha-blended on top of the video at 60 Hz refresh rate without the loss of any video frames.

If your machine has HW that is equal or superior and can not manage this type of playback--then the machine is configured inappropriately.

--J

Offline alberty

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Re: Motion judder video settings
« Reply #10 on: November 02, 2011, 01:21:15 PM »
Hi Rene,

The best format for videos on digital signage is:
  • 1280x720 WMV using the Window Media Video 9 Codec
  • 5MB/S data rate
  • 128 kbps audio rate
You should not get any playback issues using these settings.

Matthew
Matthew Alberty
Manager, Interactive Services
www.adcetera.com

Offline brazilianx

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Re: Motion judder video settings
« Reply #11 on: January 11, 2012, 05:14:14 PM »
What recommendations would you make for a large canvas of 4088 x 1188? Can WMV even support this size? I'm on a Mac using After Effects and looking at the max frame size available for flip4mac it seems to me that I can only go up to 1920 x 1080?

http://www.telestream.net/flip4mac-wmv/images/wmv-frame-sizes.gif

So far my H264 MainConcept AVC renders (30fps) have had a judder issue on playback. There is a constant horizontal scrolling animation. :'( I appreciate that fps should match the Hz refresh rates on graphics card and screens.

Offline JohnS

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Re: Motion judder video settings
« Reply #12 on: January 12, 2012, 02:34:09 PM »
Two issues:

What "profiles" can your Encoder Create?

What "profiles" can your Decoder Play?

MPEG-2/H.264/WMV/VC-1 -- all of these formats have "Profiles" which define that the playback software and hardware are expected to perform to.

GIYF:  "h.264 profile wiki" & "vc-1 profile wiki".

You will note that WMV/VC-1 is limited to Advanced-L4; with is:

1920 × 1080 / 60 (1080p)
2048 × 1536 / 24

--and not all HW/SW CODEC implementations are designed to meet Adv-L4 specifications.  [very few shipping commercial products in fact!]

As for H.264:

Level 5.1:

1,920×1,080@120.5 (16)
4,096×2,048@30.0 (5)
4,096×2,304@26.7 (5)

And there is not much under USD$35K which and play back such streams!

As for the CODEC's which ship with Scala5--I think you will find the limits are more on the order of H.264: HiP-L4 & VC-1: Adv-L3.

--J

Offline brazilianx

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Re: Motion judder video settings
« Reply #13 on: January 13, 2012, 08:29:35 AM »
Cheers John,

We are having issues specifically on the Scala Player. I have numerous industry standard profiles available on Adobe Media Encoder. I found that L4 H.264 didn't let me produce a canvas at the desired output spec so I am using L5.1. I find that playback on VLC is significantly smoother.

Can you direct me to the h.264 profile wiki and the one for VC1 please

Regards

Offline JohnS

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Re: Motion judder video settings
« Reply #14 on: January 13, 2012, 01:57:53 PM »
As I pointed out--the CODEC's that are included with Scala5 do not permit these extreme Profiles.  [and most PC HW could not properly display them in any case]

Examples with VLC or Windows Media Player are not valid--these programs are simply dedicate video Playback engines.  They due not have the overhead/infrastructure for operations such as "Mapping a playing video to the sides of a Cube rotating in 3D Space".  Such display flexibility comes at a price.

As for the Profiles--Wiki's--a search in Google would be turned them up:  "h.264 profile wiki" or "vc-1 profile wiki" as the 1st search results on the page.

The direct links:

 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/H.264/MPEG-4_AVC#Profiles

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/VC-1#Profiles

and for MPEG-2:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/H.262/MPEG-2_Part_2#Video_profiles_and_levels


--JSS